The latest release of Linux Mint 15, nicknamed “Olivia,” tries really hard to reach new design goals but is marred by a series of petty flaws. The latest rendition of Linux Mint’s flagship desktop environment, Cinnamon 1.8, is ambitious but immature in its execution. If you choose the new MATE 1.6 desktop instead, you get a very workable GNOME 2 fork that may not be worth wallowing in yesteryear. Overall, the best of what is new with Linux Mint 15 could be an HTML5-themed login screen and the additional Software Sources and Driver Managers.
The problem is Cinnamon. Mate is the perfect OS. Except I have to install k3b instead of brasero of course.
I decided to upgrade from Mint 11 to Mint 15 - KDE. Running from the Live DVD, the program looks fantastic - bright, colorful and a huge improvement in display drivers... even Youtube is fixed, losing it's blue tinge.
However I, too, am having a beast of a time installing it on my hard drive. This will be my fourth attempt and, like you, my second iso disk.
Between attempts, I loaded Ubuntu. No comparison. I'll keep struggling with Mint 15.
Sure there are glitches. I think about them every day. Still better than any of the alternatives like windows 7, Debian, Fedora, Apple, and *bsd. Maybe this article will be the much needed impetus to make Mint far far superior to any of the competition.
I've been using Mint since 2009, and Mint 15 does have problems. I get white and black lines across my screen on the desktop, on Firefox, and on Thunderbird. Many times they are big enough to render the text unreadable. Never ran into this on ANY other diustro in my 12 years of running Linux.
Any suggestions for a fix are most welcome.
I used PCLOS for 4 years, and really liked it, because it just worked. Switched to Mint and been there since. Tried Mageia, but it just never felt comfortable.
Hi Mr. Germain. I am interested in your opinion on Mint v. SolydXK v. Others. I am a relative newbie and found your SolydXK review through a trail from Mint through LMDE. I'm sorry to hear of your bad experience with the new Mint.
I am staying away from modern Ubuntu for obvious reasons, and was planning on going with the popular Mint distro. But I was dismayed to learn that they are STILL more or less enforcing full "fresh" upgrade installations, right down to wiping the file system. I think that's crazy.
So I looked into Mint's LMDE variant, but was sad to find that (a) no official KDE version existed and (b) users were reporting that "semi-rolling" update periods were actually worse than the 6 month distance between Mint releases.
So then I searched and found SolydXK... and from there, your very positive review of them. I much prefer KDE, so I am interested in that distro. But as a very tiny new offshoot, how can I possibly trust my main machines to an OS that STILL relies on a periodic manually applied "rolling release" update, from such a small team?
At least with Mint there's a lot of community and momentum, and yet based on your review even they aren't getting things quite right.
So I'm at a loss. Do I gamble on SolydXK and hope for the best? Just install Debian and then KDE?
Of your recently reviewed distributions, what would you recommend at the moment? Thanks in advance...
I've done half a dozen installations (desktop and laptop) of Mint 15 and I'm also not seeing the problems you've reported. Other than an occasionally touchly log-on screen, it seems extremely stable. I did run into sound problems with one laptop. But that laptop's sound system is fussy even when running Windows-7 so I suspect it's more a case of faulty hardware than it is an OS issue.
Maybe next time you could include the hardware specs of what you're installing on? That's always helpful in a review like yours.
Note: distro full version upgrades tend to be problematic with many (if not most) distributions of Linux. I've long since given up on doing them for more reasons than it's worth going into here. In your case (especially if you're skipping every other version) you'd be better off just doing a fresh install. Unless you're extremely sloppy and "stream of consciousness" about what you put on your machine, it shouldn't be all that difficult put your current apps back on your system either.
No, you've got it wrong, I think. Mr. Germain DID follow the normal, recommended "fresh" Mint upgrade path... and it utterly failed him.
This is exactly why I am shy of using the main Mint edition - I strongly disagree with the maintainer's technical policy position that only from-scratch installations are valid. It boggles my mind that they think it's somehow LESS risky to WIPE your whole darn disk and rely on a backup, than it would be to simply try a rolling upgrade as BOTH Ubuntu and Debian do. Sure enough, this process, using the provided Mint backup tools, failed Mr. Germain.
(Worse, even the LMDE edition isn't really "rolling" and apparently gets updated through Packs LESS frequently than the main editions.)
Yes, one can keep /home files on a separate partition, but that's an imperfect solution. That the Mint "upgrade" process always involves a complete loss of one's file system (not even TRYING to preserve existing data files) is really, well, stupid.
Wow. Not sure what your problem is, but I've never had any major problems with Linux Mint that didn't also exist in Ubuntu or other distros.
"The latest rendition of Linux Mint's flagship desktop, Cinnamon 1.8, is ambitious but immature in its execution. If you choose the new MATE 1.6 desktop version over Cinnamon, you get a very workable GNOME 2 fork that may not be worth wallowing in yesteryear."
You have to understand some things:
1. Cinnamon is not very old yet, and is still in heavy development. You have to expect things to not be perfect yet. That said, it's still among the more popular desktops.
2. MATE 1.4 was just about the most perfect rendition of Gnome 2 out there. But it was based on old GTK 2 tech. They are currently in the process of transitioning it to GTK 3. It's actually not bad, but there are some glitches (the biggest one I've seen is an occasional menu crash).
3. All this wouldn't be an issue at all if Gnome had handled its desktop upgrade better. They buggered up the Linux desktop world for many who prefer a traditional desktop environment (aka Mint users), and Mint is still working its way out of that.
"I am starting to expect sloppy installation routines regularly for this distribution."
I'm not sure what you've got going wrong on your system, but I've never once, on any system, had a bad Linux Mint install experience. And I've been installing Mint on a wide variety of systems since version 7. The worst issues I've had are things that were Ubuntu problems, or things that were common to Linux distros in general.
"Several of the applets I used in Mint 13 and 14 no longer work in Mint 15."
This is because applets are mostly community-supported, and take time to get upgraded to support the latest Cinnamon version. This has been an issue from the beginning of Cinnamon. Blame the community devs, not the distro. Same thing with your complaints about not many desklets. It's a new feature that hasn't yet gotten its community development traction. Give it time.
"I often use the GNOME Media Player... The latest version available in the Linux Mint 15 repository, however, is version 0.1.3."
That's in the Ubuntu repositories, not Mint's. Ubuntu's been known to drop back its software versions when compatibility problems crop up. You would have exactly the same issue with the current Ubuntu version. Blame them, not Mint.
"Previous versions of Linux Mint let you download an ISO for Cinnamon and for MATE. So far, that is no longer the case."
Completely false. I don't know where you're getting your ISO's, but on the Linux Mint web site, there are both Cinnamon and MATE Live DVD ISO's, and they have been there since Mint 15 was released, I believe.
"Clearly, Linux Mint 15 is a work in progress."
You must not be very experienced with Linux then. ALL Linux distros are a work in progress by the very definition of Open Source.
I would say this: The majority of the problems you are blaming on Mint 15, are really most likely either hardware issues, Ubuntu issues, Linux-in-general issues, or user error. Also, if you don't like the problem of having to reinstall each time there is an update, I suggest either sticking to the LTS versions so that you only have to reinstall every few years (which is what I currently do), or use the Debian-based semi-rolling version and never have to reinstall again.
I find your article to be more flawed than the OS you wrote about.
You speak in generalities, provide very little specifics and go into no details about the hardware used.
Many factors can lead to a poor installation experience. Hardware is a big one.
Linux upgrades have always been a little iffy. But in comparison to some other OS upgrades, they have a higher success rate.
I have always done a fresh install of Mint and other Linuxes, but that has just been my preference. I had zero issues installing Mint 15 on my Sager 9150 laptop and it has been running smartly since.
For my installs I always create a separate /home partition. That way I can blow away the old install (minus a few saved custom config files)and just remount my /home. After the install I am back to work with everything I had almost instantly.
Mate "is" available as a separate distro download from the main site. If you are not getting your distros from the linuxmint.com site then it's possible that other site is not hosting all of the versions. A little research goes a long way.
As for your comments about no "wow" factor. Mint 15 was never touted as a "Whole new experience". It's a distro upgrade much like many others. It has improvements for sure and enhancements that are nice. But to say you were bored because there was no wow factor is just you spouting off a poorly formed opinion.
That leaves readers like me with a big "Yawn" factor.
To call the distro immature is inane as it is built on a solid foundation and like "ALL" Linux distros will always be a constant work in progress.
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Many Minor Glitches Make Mint 15 More Work Than It's Worth
Posted by: Jack M. Germain July 10, 2013 05:00 AMThe latest release of Linux Mint 15, nicknamed “Olivia,” tries really hard to reach new design goals but is marred by a series of petty flaws. The latest rendition of Linux Mint’s flagship desktop environment, Cinnamon 1.8, is ambitious but immature in its execution. If you choose the new MATE 1.6 desktop instead, you get a very workable GNOME 2 fork that may not be worth wallowing in yesteryear. Overall, the best of what is new with Linux Mint 15 could be an HTML5-themed login screen and the additional Software Sources and Driver Managers.
However I, too, am having a beast of a time installing it on my hard drive. This will be my fourth attempt and, like you, my second iso disk.
Between attempts, I loaded Ubuntu. No comparison. I'll keep struggling with Mint 15.
What made you uncomfortable about Mageia? Was it that you'd become more used to MATE or Cinnamon?
Any suggestions for a fix are most welcome.
I"m not someone who relishes rotating OSes in and out, so I'd really like to pick a good one and stick with it. Any KDE users with an opinion?
I am staying away from modern Ubuntu for obvious reasons, and was planning on going with the popular Mint distro. But I was dismayed to learn that they are STILL more or less enforcing full "fresh" upgrade installations, right down to wiping the file system. I think that's crazy.
So I looked into Mint's LMDE variant, but was sad to find that (a) no official KDE version existed and (b) users were reporting that "semi-rolling" update periods were actually worse than the 6 month distance between Mint releases.
So then I searched and found SolydXK... and from there, your very positive review of them. I much prefer KDE, so I am interested in that distro. But as a very tiny new offshoot, how can I possibly trust my main machines to an OS that STILL relies on a periodic manually applied "rolling release" update, from such a small team?
At least with Mint there's a lot of community and momentum, and yet based on your review even they aren't getting things quite right.
So I'm at a loss. Do I gamble on SolydXK and hope for the best? Just install Debian and then KDE?
Of your recently reviewed distributions, what would you recommend at the moment? Thanks in advance...
Maybe next time you could include the hardware specs of what you're installing on? That's always helpful in a review like yours.
Note: distro full version upgrades tend to be problematic with many (if not most) distributions of Linux. I've long since given up on doing them for more reasons than it's worth going into here. In your case (especially if you're skipping every other version) you'd be better off just doing a fresh install. Unless you're extremely sloppy and "stream of consciousness" about what you put on your machine, it shouldn't be all that difficult put your current apps back on your system either.
Something to think about. :-)
This is exactly why I am shy of using the main Mint edition - I strongly disagree with the maintainer's technical policy position that only from-scratch installations are valid. It boggles my mind that they think it's somehow LESS risky to WIPE your whole darn disk and rely on a backup, than it would be to simply try a rolling upgrade as BOTH Ubuntu and Debian do. Sure enough, this process, using the provided Mint backup tools, failed Mr. Germain.
(Worse, even the LMDE edition isn't really "rolling" and apparently gets updated through Packs LESS frequently than the main editions.)
Yes, one can keep /home files on a separate partition, but that's an imperfect solution. That the Mint "upgrade" process always involves a complete loss of one's file system (not even TRYING to preserve existing data files) is really, well, stupid.
"The latest rendition of Linux Mint's flagship desktop, Cinnamon 1.8, is ambitious but immature in its execution. If you choose the new MATE 1.6 desktop version over Cinnamon, you get a very workable GNOME 2 fork that may not be worth wallowing in yesteryear."
You have to understand some things:
1. Cinnamon is not very old yet, and is still in heavy development. You have to expect things to not be perfect yet. That said, it's still among the more popular desktops.
2. MATE 1.4 was just about the most perfect rendition of Gnome 2 out there. But it was based on old GTK 2 tech. They are currently in the process of transitioning it to GTK 3. It's actually not bad, but there are some glitches (the biggest one I've seen is an occasional menu crash).
3. All this wouldn't be an issue at all if Gnome had handled its desktop upgrade better. They buggered up the Linux desktop world for many who prefer a traditional desktop environment (aka Mint users), and Mint is still working its way out of that.
"I am starting to expect sloppy installation routines regularly for this distribution."
I'm not sure what you've got going wrong on your system, but I've never once, on any system, had a bad Linux Mint install experience. And I've been installing Mint on a wide variety of systems since version 7. The worst issues I've had are things that were Ubuntu problems, or things that were common to Linux distros in general.
"Several of the applets I used in Mint 13 and 14 no longer work in Mint 15."
This is because applets are mostly community-supported, and take time to get upgraded to support the latest Cinnamon version. This has been an issue from the beginning of Cinnamon. Blame the community devs, not the distro. Same thing with your complaints about not many desklets. It's a new feature that hasn't yet gotten its community development traction. Give it time.
"I often use the GNOME Media Player... The latest version available in the Linux Mint 15 repository, however, is version 0.1.3."
That's in the Ubuntu repositories, not Mint's. Ubuntu's been known to drop back its software versions when compatibility problems crop up. You would have exactly the same issue with the current Ubuntu version. Blame them, not Mint.
"Previous versions of Linux Mint let you download an ISO for Cinnamon and for MATE. So far, that is no longer the case."
Completely false. I don't know where you're getting your ISO's, but on the Linux Mint web site, there are both Cinnamon and MATE Live DVD ISO's, and they have been there since Mint 15 was released, I believe.
"Clearly, Linux Mint 15 is a work in progress."
You must not be very experienced with Linux then. ALL Linux distros are a work in progress by the very definition of Open Source.
I would say this: The majority of the problems you are blaming on Mint 15, are really most likely either hardware issues, Ubuntu issues, Linux-in-general issues, or user error. Also, if you don't like the problem of having to reinstall each time there is an update, I suggest either sticking to the LTS versions so that you only have to reinstall every few years (which is what I currently do), or use the Debian-based semi-rolling version and never have to reinstall again.
You speak in generalities, provide very little specifics and go into no details about the hardware used.
Many factors can lead to a poor installation experience. Hardware is a big one.
Linux upgrades have always been a little iffy. But in comparison to some other OS upgrades, they have a higher success rate.
I have always done a fresh install of Mint and other Linuxes, but that has just been my preference. I had zero issues installing Mint 15 on my Sager 9150 laptop and it has been running smartly since.
For my installs I always create a separate /home partition. That way I can blow away the old install (minus a few saved custom config files)and just remount my /home. After the install I am back to work with everything I had almost instantly.
Mate "is" available as a separate distro download from the main site. If you are not getting your distros from the linuxmint.com site then it's possible that other site is not hosting all of the versions. A little research goes a long way.
As for your comments about no "wow" factor. Mint 15 was never touted as a "Whole new experience". It's a distro upgrade much like many others. It has improvements for sure and enhancements that are nice. But to say you were bored because there was no wow factor is just you spouting off a poorly formed opinion.
That leaves readers like me with a big "Yawn" factor.
To call the distro immature is inane as it is built on a solid foundation and like "ALL" Linux distros will always be a constant work in progress.