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ECT News Community   »   E-Commerce Times Talkback   »   Disposable production by products

Re: Cheaper Labor Drawing High-Skilled Tech Jobs from U.S.
Posted by: John Pletz 2002-10-22 14:29:28
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High tech is following a well-worn path to maturity, moving to cheaper markets overseas to shore up profits as prices come down. But high tech is different from textiles and automobiles in one key aspect: Many of the jobs that are moving offshore aren't low-skilled manufacturing positions. Many are skilled, white-collar jobs, such as technical support, software development and semiconductor design. The cutbacks have produced a backlash by some workers.

Re: Cheaper Labor Drawing High-Skilled Tech Jobs from U.S.
Posted by: tazman1987 2002-10-23 22:15:03 In reply to: John Pletz
These a**hole companies who make products that they want to sell to people in the US are hurting the ones who support their companies by sending jobs overseas. Face it, without US dollars, companies like DELL would never make money. I think the US gov should step in and require US companies to employ only US citizens and force them to keep the jobs in the US. No more exporting US jobs!

Re: Cheaper Labor Drawing High-Skilled Tech Jobs from U.S.
Posted by: mknott 2002-10-24 13:29:21 In reply to: tazman1987
I don't think the US govt can require US Companies to only hire US employees, and I don't think it would be a good idea even if they could. But I do agree that these companies are only looking to the short term by outsourcing offshore. Sending jobs and money to India will in the long run lower the standard of living in the US and lower the profits of these companies. With less money to spend on products like Dell computers, Dell will see their profits drop just as much as if they hired higher-cost US employees. Look what happened with Japan in the 70s and 80s. The cost of living in Japan eventually raised to the level of the US at the cost of US auto workers (among others). US consumers may have benefited at first but not anymore.
I for one will not deal with some thick-accented Indian dude who has no idea what I'm talking about when I call about a charge on my AMEX card. I will cancel the card if that's what it comes to and only use local bank cards.

Re: Cheaper Labor Drawing High-Skilled Tech Jobs from U.S.
Posted by: workinghard 2002-10-24 13:06:10 In reply to: tazman1987
There is a big world out there beyond the US. Read a map, buy a globe, look at an Atlas and you might see lots of people who are not American and are more than happy to spend their $$ on our products.

Re: Cheaper Labor Drawing High-Skilled Tech Jobs from U.S.
Posted by: mrducksman 2002-10-28 11:44:24 In reply to: workinghard
Ah yes, it is a big world. However, the countries that the work is going to are not countries where the people can afford the products or services that they build and support. Do you really think that Waji goes home and washes his dishes in a new GE dishwasher after he fires up his GE air conditioner that he ordered online on his Dell computer? No, after making his $3 an hour and walking home to his 1-bedroom flat that he shares with 15 family members, he sweats out another sweltering Indian night so that Michael Dell can tell everyone how wonderful his company is doing. The customer base that is being marketed to and that can afford these things are people in developed Western industrialized nations, not Waji in his multi-family, one bedroom flat.

Re: Cheaper Labor Drawing High-Skilled Tech Jobs from U.S.
Posted by: workinghard 2002-11-01 18:42:05 In reply to: mrducksman
The point of my initial had nothing to do with who is marketing what to whom. The point is that it is a mistake to say that we will only work with Americans. It is a mistake to limit the creativity, innovation and knowhow opportunities.
The issue of whether Ganesh in Bangladesh can afford to buy the products he makes is totally separate.

Re: Cheaper Labor Drawing High-Skilled Tech Jobs from U.S.
Posted by: ejs007 2002-10-23 14:19:15 In reply to: John Pletz
As companies in the US outsource Engineering / white collar jobs who in the US will remain to purchase their products? If most of us end up working for $10.00 an hour because of disappearing jobs, Dell (and others) will have larger problems. Finding anyone who can afford to purchase these products. I don't believe people in India or other countries making $2.00 per hour will be.

Re: Cheaper Labor Drawing High-Skilled Tech Jobs from U.S.
Posted by: lewis 2002-10-22 17:03:32 In reply to: John Pletz
As the CEO of a company and an American Consumer, I have to side with Dell and other companies. Americans want cheap products that are high quality. You have to cut the cost of producing and supporting the product to remain competitive. Capitalism will not allow anything else. If Americans are willing to pay 60-90% more for their products because they are American made, they need to show this. Otherwise the pocket book vote shows commodity tech jobs like support, lower-level engineering and manufacturing will continue to be given to countries that provide better service, (you'll note this article did say the people in India work better and harder for less money) for a fraction of the cost. It's the American consumer who drives this each time he/she purchases a product because of its lower cost. Shipping some positions offshore keeps the rest of the high-paying positions here and allows the rest of us to maintain the highest standard of living in the world.

Re: Cheaper Labor Drawing High-Skilled Tech Jobs from U.S.
Posted by: JustShitCand 2002-11-01 11:10:12 In reply to: lewis
Here's the rub bub. I would like to pay more for American products, but I can't find them.
I remember a time 20 years ago when a simple pair of American tennis shoes would last me 6 months or more. The chinese pair I buy now, I'm lucky to get 2-3 months out of them before they fall apart.
I also don't believe they work better than Americans. I believe statistically, the work effort is about the same.
Finally, Mr. CEO. Who is going to buy your products when all of us can no longer afford any products? Are you going to outsource your consumers too?

Disposable production by products
Posted by: mrducksman 2002-10-28 10:56:59 In reply to: lewis
Lewis, upon reading down through some of the posts that were written in response to this article, I would contend that some, including yourself, missed the mark. If you look at the pocketbook vote, people are willing to pay for a quality differentiated product. I point to the surge in luxury auto sales, BMW, Cadillac, Infiniti and Land Rover are certainly not selling to extraordinarily price-conscious consumers. I would contend, also, that Apple computer is in that league. Apple has been able to distinguish itself from the commodity-based consumer mentality. By making consumer goods that appeal to this audience, the computer industry, like other industries, has hurt themselves. The difference that separates Japan and Germany and Great Britain from the US is that it does not view its labor base (its citizens) as disposable production waste. Many companies in those countries post strong slow steady growth over many decades, not the huge double-digit growth for companies like WorldCom and Dell that are now paying for that growth. As you will see in the future, we as Americans will pay for our philosophy of disposability, especially when it comes to our citizenry.

Re: Cheaper Labor Drawing High-Skilled Tech Jobs from U.S.
Posted by: mrducksman 2002-10-22 14:58:31 In reply to: John Pletz
It is absolutely pathetic and shameful the way technology workers, and workers in general, have been treated in the United States. From our former employers we get the old line of "We've got to outsource to remain competitive in a shrinking economy" and from the government we get the shaft again from the influx of H1-B visa employees entering the country. My sincere hope is that when all of the business process knowledge and intellectual capital is offshore, that a political climate change will occur and all of that knowledge will be lost. That to me would be SWEET revenge. Then let Jeff Immelt, Michael Dell and the rest of the stooges explain the BIG cost savings to their shareholders when they are scrambling to rebuild those knowledge bases and business processes, the ones that we (like fools) worked to create. Oh well, just wishful thinking. We all know that the final word in government stabilization is money…….above all else it is money……and politicians are the same everywhere, they are just looking for the quickest path to the handout. The lesson is ultimately, take care of yourself! Do what it takes to make your situation better and hopefully, one day the money-grubbing little weasels at the helm of these companies will steer them straight into the icebergs (Global Crossing, Enron, WorldCom) and they will have to pay for their inconsideration to American workers.
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