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ECT News Community   »   MacNewsWorld Talkback   »   Re: Flash Forward: Can Adobe Leave Apple in the Dust?

Re: Flash Forward: Can Adobe Leave Apple in the Dust?
Posted by: David Liu 2010-05-14 07:37:51
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Flash, sharply rejected by Jobs and Company, has moved on to Apple's competitors, hoping for a warm welcome and the promise of a place in the mobile market. While Apple CEO Steve Jobs' recent open letter deploring Adobe's Flash managed to do little in terms of settling the argument as to who was right in the debate, it did point out many of the problems with the oft-buggy software that may indeed plague the smartphone experience. Flash Player 10.1 is set to debut later this year, and a slew of Flash alternatives are moving into the forefront.

What a load of FUD
Posted by: supercarrot 2010-05-16 04:06:35 In reply to: David Liu
This is just a land grab by Apple. They are not champions of open development on the web, they just want to replace it with a cocoa based alternative. We are going to find ourselves back in the dark ages if we let them get away with their 'improvements'.
Apple is currently the MOST closed out of the large consumer based tech companies out there. They want to control content, delivery and platform. All integrated under a company with a LEGENDARY predilection to sueing at the drop of a hat.
They are a very scary dictatorship, bad news for the web, bad news for tech and being such profound patient trolls, bad news for innovation and therefore the consumer.

Still they got good PR.

I am NOT a Microsoft fanboy, but I would rather have a powerfull MS than a powerfull Steve Jobs.

David, David, David
Posted by: DannoBonano 2010-05-14 18:46:18 In reply to: David Liu
Employed by Flash? Seriously, with all the blah, blah, blah coming out of the Adobe pie-hole, let's examine a few points:

1) Adobe Flash 10.1 may END up working well with Froyo 2.2 but let's face it, that leaves all current and near-term (6-9 month buyers) of Android products in the dust. Also, it doesn't mention the extra battery juice that it will consume. They have had since 1997 to come up with a solid mobile solution and one just doesn't exist today.
2) Adobe has to play the public media campaign to try and justify their $3.5 billion acquisition of Macromedia and Flash. Oops. Lots of money. Big mistake.
3) Adobe needs to keep Flash developers as a key piece in CS5 so they can charge their $2.5k per copy price tag for their development suite. So, this has nothing to do with openess, choice or Adobe being 'good'. They are just trying to maintain their profits.
4) They want to control all mobile development platforms. Just wait. If they are allowed to publish apps from their suite for RIM, Android, Nokia etc.. they will control the development platforms. That means that if those platforms make updates and enhancements to their own platforms, developers using Adobe's suite are at Adobe's mercy to update their suite allowing them to take advantage of those changes. Also, cross-platfom suites use lowest common denominator elements so that means you won't get full use of your desired platforms' functionality. Boo. Fortunately, Apple doesn't think that way.
5) Flash Cookies. Adobe makes a lot of $$$ from Google for providing lots of interesting privacy related tidbits from Flash use. Ever clear your Flash Cookies? Didn't think so as they do not get cleared in the browser cookie settings. You are being spied on at Adobe's profit.
6) Flash is proprietary. Not open. Adobe makes a lot of money on their proprietary platforms. They aren't trying to do what's best for us. Just what's best for them.
7) Ads. Oh yeah, Adobe makes $$$$ from Flash ads that can't work on the iPod, iPad and iPhone systems. Yaay! Oh but you think that takes money away from developers? Wrong. They make a lot more money using Apple's iAd platform. A LOT MORE.
8) Adobe was only behind by 6 months on development of CS products? BS. Lies. Everyone knows they screwed the pooch. They took what? Almost a decade to come out with cocao apps? Please.

People blindly hate Apple which I find funny. There are alternatives out there. Sure they aren't as good. But, there are alternatives. If you don't like Apple you don't have to buy their products. I just don't get why people whine and complain so much. Give it a rest.

Missing Flash WILL hurt Adobe, else why the fuss?
Posted by: WaltFrench 2010-05-14 17:09:59 In reply to: David Liu
“…Flash 10.1's omission on the iPhone … [won't] hurt Adobe as long as all the other players stick to the plan and wait for the eventual release.”

Close, but wrong. Flash's absence from the iPhone WILL hurt Adobe UNTIL its availability on competitive phones forces Apple to fold or to shrink into irrelevance. The longer all of those burgeoning devices go without decent Flash, the more developers will look for alternatives, and maybe feel used by Adobe.

I personally wouldn't hold my breath for Flash on all but a few of the most costly phones. AFAICT, only the most powerful smartphones have enough CPU cycles or RAM — many are an order of magnitude shy of low-end laptops (which run Flash just fine, thank you, when Adobe supports the OS/browser). Many consumers just aren't going to spend hundreds more on the fast CPUs, snazzy screens and bigger batteries, when cheaper machines do everything else just fine.

But even the Nexus, which DOES have a fast CPU, maybe as fast as the iPad's and a nice screen, has been a formidable challenge: seven months after its introduction (3+ years after the iPhone, btw), NO FLASH. Where has Adobe been? Many smartphones have gone multiple generations, and the Nexus has gone a whole lifetime in internet years without Flash. And I say “lifetime” because Google has deprecated it, pointing prospective customers towards the HTC Incredible.

Adobe has put its engineers onto critical path for a phone's success, and given their track record, not many phone manufacturers are going to trust Adobe, either. Who will get those scarce resources, and who will not be important enough to Adobe? That's one of the major problems with sole-source, proprietary tools like Flash— nobody likes to be locked into somebody else's agenda.

You're missing the point
Posted by: Time Clock Software Guy 2010-05-14 08:53:49 In reply to: David Liu
From a consumer standpoint this looks like the established technology (Adobe and Flash) being challenged by the upstart (Apple). It is not.

From a developer point of view (we publish employee time clock software), Flash was an accepted standard that is hindering the advancement of the web. Every developer who hasn't bet their career on Flash (and even some who do) understands that Flash is a problem that needs to be addressed for an application driven Internet (and in particular the mobile web) to come of age.

Apple has nothing to gain by taking on their former partner for the sake of breaking Adobe. They worked with them for years trying to get them to address the issues with Flash. Adobe's hubris will be their undoing. Apple is brave in using their clout in mobile devices to move the web in the direction it needs to go.

Beg to differ
Posted by: WaltFrench 2010-05-14 17:20:34 In reply to: Time Clock Software Guy
…but just with the “It is not.”

The iPhones, other smartphones and iPads are the very definition of Disruptive Technology. (Good Wikipedia entry). They're slimmed down, crappy little toys compared to a desktop.

And they're selling by the gazillion as a result.

They aren't built to be desktops; they're meant to serve new uses— twittering, maps, Kindle-ing on the bus, Pandora — for which you'd never use a desktop or when you wouldn't have a laptop. It's senseless or just frustrating to try to stuff Enterprise or even high-bandwidth and CPU-using consumer apps into 'em.

Upstarts: overthrowing all the old approaches and making new ones every day. No wonder Jobs is proud (even as he's running scared about Android being the next Windows 95 that ate the Mac's lunch).
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