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ECT News Community   »   E-Commerce Times Talkback   »   Re: Pakistan Has Become a Hot Spot for IT Outsourcing

Re: Pakistan Has Become a Hot Spot for IT Outsourcing
Posted by: Anthony Mitchell 2004-12-24 08:34:32
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Why is Pakistan the hot new offshore information technology (IT) destination? This is because of a combination of favorable economic circumstances. Just when many Western managers are finally becoming comfortable with the idea of working closely with Indian IT firms, along comes Pakistan. Pakistan is shaking off decades of "also ran" status. Funds invested into building educational institutions in Pakistan (when there were not enough jobs to absorb all the graduates from those institutions) are paying off as Pakistan begins to field a modern, highly productive labor force.

Re: Pakistan Has Become a Hot Spot for IT Outsourcing
Posted by: codebox 2005-05-07 02:03:21 In reply to: Anthony Mitchell
well.. to be honest, both india and pak are not really great venues ethically... as most indian and pak firms use pirated software to deliver services. This is what makes them cheap. I am a pakistani myself living in karachi, but I would urge all the ppl outside PAK or IND not to invest in india or pakistan unless the software piracy gets eliminated (which isnt gonna drop anytime soon)... coz essentially, the pak and ind software houses are stealing your software illegally and serving you guys with that same software...
but, if u dont care about ethics.. pak and ind are the best options... esp. Pak now as india has put 36% tax... in Karachi you'll find as good software engineers as anywhere in India... and at 36% less, thats something to look for...

Re: Pakistan Has Become a Hot Spot for IT Outsourcing
Posted by: Sunil_Arole 2005-02-24 00:24:19 In reply to: Anthony Mitchell
The authors have been clearly paid for this article and this is evident in the gross mis-representation of facts. It also reflects the inferiority complex of the Pakistanis. Why do they have to compare themselves to India? India does not compare itself to Pakistan cause we know that thers is no comparision. Its time that they shed this mentality and concentrate on building themselves up. India is already attracting around 10 billion dollars and will continue to do so. God help the Pakistanis.

Re: Pakistan Has Become a Hot Spot for IT Outsourcing
Posted by: ejazUSA 2005-03-25 12:28:51 In reply to: Sunil_Arole
based on my travels in FY 2004 & FY 2005
The Indians can only criticize; I rarely hear any positive comment from the "FOB" Indians. Only the Indian who are well educated and cultured can see the picture differently.
As far as Pakistan, it is ready for Business like Anthony Mitchell said.
I recently (in FY 2005) visited Indian for 14 days and here are the facts & realities on the ground.
1). Indian Roads are in bad shape and overall public infrastructure is in terrible shape all over India
2). When something crazy happens religious riots and killing it spirals out of control and Thousands die and butchered as in Gujarat few years back..DEMOCRASY ... Sure..!!
Before you through stones on others check your own glass house and yourself. Learn to think Positive, may be that will help resolve & promote peace in the region.
3). 1 Billion + people ..
When one lands in Bombay/Mumbai you realize, my god this place is crowded and poverty and shantytown hits you right in the face.
Not even 1 Indian City has similar airports and road that Pakistan has. Pakistanís Infrastructure is brand new; Islamabad is just like Denver, Colorado, USA.
In India Poor People are everywhere sleeping on the roads, begging and children running around naked and asking for money. People are taking a dump right on the main roads.
4). Due to rush and bad traffic every one is late to work. In India one should never ask how far are going or how many mile to my destination, rather ask how many hours will it take to get there. 3-5 miles can take 2-3 hours.
5). Elephant rides in the middle of Bombay streets, the dam animal could run over you and kill many, not even a concern. Indians call it freedom and mythical and mysterious place to be, it is dirty beyond belief and crowded.
Go to Lahore, Islamabad or even Karachi, you will not find anything crazy like this.
Here is the good stuff on India:-
My roommate is from Bangalore, India.
Most of the educated & cultured Indian are very nice and friendly people. I met many on my trip. Few of them will be life long friends.
I enjoyed my Visit to Taj Mahal, Jaipur, and playing Golf in Delhi was fun.
As a US citizen I would say to my educated and other pessimistic Indian friends lets look at the facts, rather than bashing each other and not being able to take good news, lets work together and build a better future for all of US.

Re: Pakistan Has Become a Hot Spot for IT Outsourcing
Posted by: sachyn 2007-06-26 05:47:57 In reply to: ejazUSA
thankyou very much for defaming india. i am sure u r a pakistani who just love to hear,write,read and talk bad things about india. and please never dare to compare pakistan with india, we are lot more ahead than you. and everyone knows what pakistan is, pakistanis only know to do terrorist activities.

Re: Pakistan Has Become a Hot Spot for IT Outsourcing
Posted by: jvalant 2005-02-23 22:36:38 In reply to: Anthony Mitchell
Pakistan is a world leader in IT - atleast in a parallel universe where IT stands for International Terrorism. As far as Information Tech is concerned, they don't have enough schools or colleges - unless the madrassahs there now have WLANs with 802.11 a/b/g. Has anyone here even seen a Paki working in an IT company? I sure have not. English speaking Pakistanis? They might as well look for a needle in a haystack or rather a needle in a stack of needles. People shouldn't be much concerned about such articles - freedom of speech and expression throw up all sorts of fairytales.

Re: Pakistan Has Become a Hot Spot for IT Outsourcing
Posted by: schaudhary 2005-05-01 18:15:55 In reply to: jvalant
Hi jvalant,
first I am very much thankful to Anthony Mitchell who knows the truth and reality about Pakistan .
second I was not expecting these type of comments
from our neighbours about us but these are your thoughts and comments
you said:
Has anyone here even seen a Paki working in an IT company? I sure have not. English speaking Pakistanis? (these are your comments)
but reality is my name is Saleem Chaudhary
I am working as a Oracle Application programmer/Analyst in Softtek Integration system IT company for the last 7 years, my younger brother Nadeem working with General Publisher as a IT consultant for the last 13 years and my brother Kaleem is also programmer working in IT company 4 year ,my brother in law(Shahid) is running POS
point of sales business with mirosoft 9 year, my cousin masood is networking IT Manager,my nephew Hammad just completed MS Degree (web designer) ,my brother in law (Kamran)
is network programmer for the last 6 years these are my relatives in IT
thousand and thousand pakistani are working in IT industries
warm wishes to you and your family
Saleem Chaudhary

Re: Pakistan Has Become a Hot Spot for IT Outsourcing
Posted by: nishant80 2004-12-30 03:13:54 In reply to: Anthony Mitchell
Hello Mr. Mitchell and Mr. DavidKhan,
The article sure makes for an interesting reading. As an Indian I'll be very happy if my close neighbour grows economically so that the entire south asian region rides on the tide of development. Having said that, I find it very difficult to understand that Pakistani's support (if they really do) the views as expressed by Mitchell. Pakistan's development lies in the hands of its own people. Showing India in bad light just to project pakistan up is ridiculous coz India is years ahead of pakistan in terms of economic and technological advancements (I don't think anyone will disagree, not even our good old neighbours)

Re: Pakistan Has Become a Hot Spot for IT Outsourcing
Posted by: rkcol 2004-12-25 01:41:08 In reply to: Anthony Mitchell
The product and technology services market in India is expected to grow to 8-11 billion dollars by 2008, according to a McKinsey 2002 study

Re: Pakistan Has Become a Hot Spot for IT Outsourcing
Posted by: Nukepuke 2004-12-25 01:26:48 In reply to: Anthony Mitchell
However much I try to read this article in an objective fashion, it comes across as one from an author who has no clue about the ground realities that exist,
1. "English accent" is not the key to make outsourcing work. There are bigger issues involved.
2. Outsourcing has been primarily moving towards India partly due to the key role Indians have occupied in the US tech sector.
3. There isnt an educational system worth its name in Pakistan, unless you are talking about Madrassas.
Here is another advantage of sending the work to Pakistan,
5. The more Westerners you have in Pakistan, the easier it becomes for the Laden gang to spill more blood.
(To the author - Don't tell me you didn't get paid to write this article, and I might even be guessing the group (lobbying) correctly)

Re: Pakistan Has Become a Hot Spot for IT Outsourcing
Posted by: DavidKhan 2004-12-26 09:21:08 In reply to: Nukepuke
Mr Nukepuke's ideas are nothing but rubbish.
1. English accent is very important for the Call Center Industry and Pakistanis have an accent that can be easily nuetralized as compared to their Indian counterparts.
2. India's IT sector has grown because of the PR campaign led by Indians in the US who are well placed within the US media.
3. Pakistan has one of the best Universities in Asia. Recently Newsweek rated National University of Sciences & Tech, Ghulam Ishaq Khan Inst. of Eng. Sciences & Tech, Shaheed Zulfikar Ali Bhutto Inst. of Science & Tech in the Top 40 Science and Technology Schools in Asia. http://www.asiaweek.com/asiaweek/features/universities2000/scitech/sci.overall.html
4. Pakistan is a totally peaceful country only getting bad media representation. Having lived in the US and in Lahore, Pakistan, I find no difference in the security situation. Well, yes if you go to the Afghan border which is about 3000 miles from Lahore, you might get into trouble but the big cities are very safe. India has had more death in terrorism related incidents, the Gujarat massacre of 2002 in which almost 2000 people were killed is just one.
5. Anthony Mitchell has done a great job with this article. He has made very good arguments about why Pakistan will be big in IT in the future.

Re: Pakistan Has Become a Hot Spot for IT Outsourcing
Posted by: ankit 2004-12-28 03:43:09 In reply to: DavidKhan
Hey!! Hey!! Hey!! Mr. David Khan
I'm sure u must have thought no one would probably visit the URL mentioned in your message (http://www.asiaweek.com/asiaweek/features/universities2000/scitech/sci.overall.html).
First of all as A1Star also mentioned.......wake up dear. Which ages u r still reeling into. Ohhhh I think they feel so backward that they're still into 2000 when the world has raced to 2005.
Providing the link is the biggest blunder of his msg. Thanks dude. U r only helping India ..... 5 of the top 10 mentioned in that list are Indian institutes!! Where's the first pakistani institute ,,,,,,,,,,,, oh!!!!! its right there at No. 20
ha ha ha
Even our lesser known but a good university acc. to the news article (Anna University) was juusstt behind the 2nd of the only 2 universities of pakistan.
What all do I say abt Mr. Khan posting ......????????
Have a good day all......

Re: Pakistan Has Become a Hot Spot for IT Outsourcing
Posted by: ankit 2004-12-25 11:53:53 In reply to: Nukepuke
Couldn't agree more with Nukepuke. I too can assume from which lobby the author has got his cheque from to author this article.
Classic example of a pretty poor mis-representation of facts. My heart goes for the author who had to write this article just for some lobbysts who when couldn't do anything on political front to bring their country back in reckoning have resorted to such tricks.
But then TRICKS n PLAYS are part of the soil there.
I could only laugh n laugh while n after going thru this article.
Shows the desperation in the mindset of pakistanis (Professionalism and integrity section) to get thru some orders from anywhere n esp. when they GET THUMBS DOWN from all majors in front of even upcoming & middle-tier software & BPO companies.
Social security, Secularism, Professionalism .......ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
I can understand how well they follow these practices when they have a General as President who himself got to the power by all unlawful
The plus points the article states are only bcoz they don't have work. When they don't have work to do obviously the turnover will be meagre
20% as against 100% of India as they state.
Low cost pool - When they don't have work to do anybody will go for the cut-throat prices to work n earn something. I mean 20% turnover itself states a lot abt the country's potential.
They say "Language skills and accents provide Pakistan with a major advantage over all other Asian outsourcing destinations." I can assume for some data which shows how many out-sourcing contracts went in their favor not only against India but other outsourcing favorite countries like china, philippines etc.
I wish they could throw some figures to represent these facts too.
I can go on n on to just write abt this article.
To conclude in a few words .......... "TOTAL RUBBISH"

Re: Pakistan Has Become a Hot Spot for IT Outsourcing
Posted by: A1star 2004-12-27 13:59:43 In reply to: ankit
ECT is an excellent site with lots of valuable information. That is why I am extremely disappointed with the terribly biased and lack of truth in the article by Anthony Mitchell. But I was even more amazed and disappointed by the fact that ECT has included this article under "Best of ECT news" section!! Something has gone terribly wrong.
I am not going to proceed on a 'Pak-bashing' session in this mail (nukepuke & Ankit have already done lots of that). In fact, I feel that Pakistan should be helped to succeed in the world of business and become a stronger economic nation. If Pakistan can achieve some amount of economic stability, then it will surely have tremendous positive ramifications on world peace and stability. The youth in Pakistan will have more opportunities to invest their energies, rather than participate in the mindless propaganda-laden campaigns of a few people in Pakistan. Ever noticed how the nations which are in a state of continuous violence, misery and poverty completely shun away stupid and fanatic ideologies once they begin to prosper economically? Japan, Germany, South Korea.....the list is endless.
The basic education system in Pakistan needs to focus on imparting professional skills to future corporate managers and not churn out experts in religious gospels. Certain sections of various Indian Governments have also tried to impart biased education to children over the years. But since India is a democratic nation, there have (thankfully) been opposing and neutralizing views which have not allowed any fanatic ideologies to prevail. Pakistan's challenge is to overcome its authoritarian system and create an unbiased and fact-based education system.
I have interacted with many Indians & Pakistanis in the US and they certainly seem to be a very determined, intelligent and hard-working set of people. But the Indians abroad certainly have a more positive outlook about their country's future than the Pakistanis. Ask any Pakistani in US about what the ground reality is in Pakistan and they will tell you about the constant instability and slow progress. The problems are almost similar as India's...only the gravity of the situation is much more in Pakistan. Let's all hope that there is a lot of educational and economic development in Pakistan in the years to come so that it can eventually realize it's true potential. After all, a nation focused only on amassing weapons and creating soldiers will only go the 'Afghanistan' way in the long run.
As for Mr. Mitchell's article, the less said the better. I hope next time he 'tries' to make it seem a bit more realistic. Who knows....probably if he cuts down a bit on the blatant lies, someone might just believe his article!! As for the comments of David Khan..thanks for providing us outdated stats from year 2000. Dude, it's the end of 2004!!! Wake up! Also, I think Mr. Khan thought no one would probably visit the URL mentioned in his message (http://www.asiaweek.com/asiaweek/features/universities2000/scitech/sci.overall.html). Mr. Khan is only succeeding in promoting India's status as a Mecca for higher studies.... 5 of the top 10 mentioned in that list are Indian institutes!! And there are no Pakistani institutes till no. 20!
I hope in future, the readers contribute "constructive" and "informative" articles, which can positively influence the world around us instead of leading others into dark pits of lies and illusion, as attempted by Anthony Mitchell.
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