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ECT News Community   »   E-Commerce Times Talkback   »   Re: Are Tech Jobs Paying Less?



Re: Are Tech Jobs Paying Less?
Posted by: Keith Regan 2002-10-08 11:15:14
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The classic law of supply and demand has caught up to technology workers. Not only are fewer jobs available, but there has been a noticeable erosion of salary gains made during the technology boom. According to outplacement firm Challenger, Gray & Christmas, 75 percent of top-earning workers reported taking a pay cut if they changed jobs in the second quarter of 2002. "It's the type of trend that can really hamper an economic recovery," CEO John A. Challenger told the E-Commerce Times.


Re: Are Tech Jobs Paying Less?
Posted by: quickmaster 2003-02-12 16:43:19 In reply to: Keith Regan
Tech Jobs Pay Less? heck ya, IT Jobs is a dead-end career choice. After 7 years in IT working for such companies as HP and Microsoft this degreed, bilingual, certificates up the wahzoo "professional" can't find a 35+k per year job in several major metropolitan cities. Absolutely Tech Jobs pay less, much less than Firemen, Medical Sonographers, Electricians and Nurses. Anymore proof of this, all you have to do is go to an Army or Air Force recruiter and say, "Hi I have a 4-year degree in IT what are my chances of becoming an officer", he will say, "I really can't help you nowadays", now go to the same recruiter and say "Hi I have a two-year associates degree (or even a license) in nursing or fire technology what are my chances of becoming an officer" and he will say "what's your phone number", we have all been seduced with the lie that an IT job is a gateway to a high-paying, stable career because people will always need computers, i don't think so, babies are born, people get sick, drivers get into accidents, fires happen regardless of the economy, these are the truly high-growth jobs of the future. In a matter of years, jobs inside an office (not just IT but accountants, business analysts and architects) will be sent to places like the Philippines or India, IT people will become the new American Underclass. IT people need to see the writing on the wall, the IT industry is fundamentally changed forever and it's not going to recover.
quickmaster,
apprentice autobody repair technician

Re: Are Tech Jobs Paying Less?
Posted by: Horseman101 2002-10-17 13:03:06 In reply to: Keith Regan
Hi, Folks.
Here in the United Kingdom, salaries outside of London and Cambridge have halved over the past year particularly in East Anglia, from an average of 20,000 ($32,000US for a senior IT Director or Manager falling this year to around 11,300 ($18,080US). All grades of IT staff have seen salaries eroded here in the UK, with Programmers outside London now earning an average 9,000 ($14,400US).
If you are an employer looking to set up a cheap operation in the UK, East Anglia is the place to be right now. There is no shortage of skilled candidates as the UK here is in the grip of a recession, and redundancy is now commonplace. On average there are 100 people chasing every position here.
Things may be tough in the US, but they are terrible in the UK.
Paul Johnson
IT Director
Hill PR Communications

Re: Are Tech Jobs Paying Less?
Posted by: mmontagne 2002-10-12 14:03:33 In reply to: Keith Regan
It is easy to blame present circumstances on finite issues, but the truth is prosperity is subject to larger forces.
First let us assess our vital industry. Never before has the world become so dependent upon and so affluent in processing data. The truth is computer applications can and do serve the world in ways which highly justify the expenditures of the so-called tech industry. For instance, once software exists to perform in three seconds complex assessments across for example an irrigation district, never again is it necessary for several people to make the same calculations manually over several weeks; and ever afterward, the retained data can be processed instantly in many further ways. There is no reasonable doubt how justified the work of developing such applications is.
Theoretically, this work should free up countless hours, to our benefit. Instead, though the world is hardly saturated with the wares necessary to fully minimize the overhead of managing data, and applications themselves need considerable refinement in terms of both reliability and functionality, "somehow" we find ourselves, despite the need, dispossessed of this needed work.
At the same time, the need for diversification of the technical background of developers continues to multiply, while the advent of object-oriented programming provides avenues to deliver end product we never could before. Most of our highest-paid professions can hardly compare with the technical industry in demand for diverse, precise wielding of skills. As we know, our work cannot even be functional if we do not know what we are attempting to do perfectly well. Few disciplines require such perfect precision; and yet, even moreso than two years ago, today serviceable technological skillsets require more diverse and more complete skills than ever.
The truth is that business and consumers are now on the edge. "Somehow" we can no longer afford to advance.
Why?
Well, technical people must keep track of everything they wield, so the answer should not be far from persons of such a discipline.
What happens when you have a circulation which can only be introduced as debt subject to interest, and you must re-borrow what you pay out of the general circulation in terms of interest and principal, from today's central bank?
Merely to maintain a circulation, debt continues to escalate by ever greater increments, as we pay interest and principal out of the general circulation, and, to maintain that circulation, must re-borrow the same as a subsequent debt, increased as much as the periodic interest. Debt continues to multiply irreversibly in proportion to the circulation, until...
It requires little technical skill to understand we are all subject to the limitations imposed by such a system, and that with debt perpetually and irreversibly increased in proportion to any given circulation, ultimately all necessary work cannot be afforded, as the costs of servicing the irreversibly multiplying debt ultimately exceed the finite capacity of commerce and consumer to sustain themselves against the costs of debt.
The condition of Argentina for instance is not an aberration. It is the consequence of such a system.
This is the nature of the entire world's situation -- not just the technology industry. The only way to change the progressing course of history is to perfect economy. That is, we must realize that if "money" is to be a medium of exchange, it cannot be an instrument of profit.
The founding fathers set out to do this. We have failed to finish the job.

Re: Are Tech Jobs Paying Less?
Posted by: rdata5 2002-10-11 01:10:28 In reply to: Keith Regan
Today there are thousands of unemployed IT professionals in each major city in the US midwest, plus more layoffs coming. IT positions that used to command a pretty decent wage ($40k+) are now being filled by 2-year tech school grads who think that 30k seems pretty good. H1B visas flooded the market with (admittedly bright) foreign IT workers during the last seven years making the market even tighter. In short: It's a terrible time for IT job hunting.

Re: Are Tech Jobs Paying Less?
Posted by: alangrus 2002-10-09 15:23:00 In reply to: Keith Regan
It used to be that a specialized skill that only "smart" people could do commanded good money. I used to get $50-100/hour for web design work. Now with kids and offshore workers glad to work for $8-10/hour, it has diluted the whole marketplace.
If you live in your mom's basement or under a tree, minimum wage sounds pretty good. The rest of us need a real paycheck.
- Alan Gruskoff

Re: Are Tech Jobs Paying Less?
Posted by: mrvietnam 2003-07-06 19:49:12 In reply to: alangrus
My experience with "professional developers" in the U.S. making that kind of money has been me getting ripped off for tens of thousands of dollars, which has had a definite impact on my lifestyle.
I will gladly send my next dollars to an offshore developer who has the skills as well as the integrity to do the job correctly while also at the very least making an attempt at communicating with me and not down to me.
Your business is getting what it deserves, and hopefully the shake out will continue until you self-police your industry before you can all get jobs at publix.
Don't blame good people in other countries for your less than realistic and less than honorable actions which have damaged people like me for incredible amounts of money. Shame.

Re: Are Tech Jobs Paying Less?
Posted by: pedroquinonez 2002-10-10 14:23:05 In reply to: alangrus
It's too bad you don't see the bigger picture. You seem to blame outsiders for situations that occur to you personally. The market slowdown has been affected by many factors and not just by one particular grudge you have personally against cheap labor being transferred to other countries.
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