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On this day in the United States we celebrate our independence from what was reported to be a very oppressive government. Of course, since the victors get to tell the story and it all happened even before my time, I have little doubt there was another side. History may seem black and white, but I know the history I have lived through seldom was. Considering that it's Independence Day, I think it important to use this opportunity to talk about protecting our freedoms and why they are important. We have a number of recent events that make excellent examples.
Do you have a problem with F/OSS other than personalities?
Posted by: tzellers 2005-07-04 09:41:29 In reply to: Rob Enderle
This was otherwise a well written well considered article except for your attack on Open Source.
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Certainly there are a few loose nuts in the open source tool box, but this is true of any large aggregate of people. There are "Christians" who bomb subway stations, and "Islamics" who behead Americans wandering in their deserts. Neither of which justifies a blanket condemnation of all ascribe to creed. Open source is no different.
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Your false generalization attack upon F/OSS has become tiresome. If you have real issues with Open Source as such, rather than that there are people you don't like who claim affiliation with Open Source, please state them plainly.
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-- TWZ (aka ColonelZen at Yahoo, ipw, and elsewhere)
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Certainly there are a few loose nuts in the open source tool box, but this is true of any large aggregate of people. There are "Christians" who bomb subway stations, and "Islamics" who behead Americans wandering in their deserts. Neither of which justifies a blanket condemnation of all ascribe to creed. Open source is no different.
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Your false generalization attack upon F/OSS has become tiresome. If you have real issues with Open Source as such, rather than that there are people you don't like who claim affiliation with Open Source, please state them plainly.
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-- TWZ (aka ColonelZen at Yahoo, ipw, and elsewhere)
Re: Do you have a problem with F/OSS other than personalities?
Posted by: RobEnderle 2005-07-04 23:12:49 In reply to: tzellers
Actually I thought I was being very clear. I didn’t like it when Planned Parenthood clinics were bombed but I don’t write on those issues. I didn’t like it when labs that did animal experiments were bombed but I don’t write on those issues. I didn’t like it when crosses were burned on lawns, or swastikas were painted on houses, but I don’t write on those issues. I write on tech and I don’t like it when people are threatened with violence for disagreeing about an operating system or approach to technology. I am voicing my objection to this behavior; it is that I object to. I also object to any group who argues freedom but seems to want to deny me my right to a choice. Heck I’ll make it simpler, I object to anyone denying me a choice.
I believe that both sides should be heard without fear of violence or Denial of Service Attacks. I also object to being constantly mischaracterized as making generalizations about OSS. What I said was “Some Nuts”.
I believe that both sides should be heard without fear of violence or Denial of Service Attacks. I also object to being constantly mischaracterized as making generalizations about OSS. What I said was “Some Nuts”.
Re: Do you have a problem with F/OSS other than personalities?
Posted by: tzellers 2005-07-05 14:36:06 In reply to: RobEnderle
In other words, no you don't have anything against F/OSS other than to attack based upon personalities. There certainly has never been anyone using hostile tactics and intimidation, say threats, or perhaps stalking and actually haranguing someone's mother and bragging about it on the web by those antagonistic to F/OSS, has there?
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-- TWZ
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-- TWZ
Re: Do you have a problem with F/OSS other than personalities?
Posted by: RobEnderle 2005-07-05 17:28:26 In reply to: tzellers
That is correct, and I’ve said similar things about OS/2 and Apple nuts so I am very consistent. And historically I’ve gone after employees in the firms I’ve worked for who have abused other employees and especially subordinates. To say I don’t like abusive behavior would be one of the great understatements.
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But let me add I also object to a site positioning itself as a legal resource that doesn't use a legal process to protect its interests. DOS attacks are hardly a legal process, in the instance you point out the response that shut down the site was illegal and an inappropriate use of force. Recall that the reporter's management approved the piece and, to my eye, Linux and Open Source actually took more damage from the response then the piece itself which probably wouldn't have been read my many otherwise. The response was inept, illegal, and inappropriate.
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There are always shortcuts that can be taken when you take the law into your own hands, reporters often portray people in an unfavorable light, when they cross the line, they, and their publication, can be liable. I would probably agree with you that the protections aren’t as strong for the individual as I would like, but, in my book, two wrongs do not make a right and a site professing expertise in the law should not drive illegal behavior.
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In any case, to me there is a big difference between threatening to kidnap someone’s child because you disagree with them and a reporter trying to find out the background of a person who is clearly in the public domain by tracking down their mother. The first is clearly a crime, the second, right or wrong, is an almost nightly news occurrence.
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But let me add I also object to a site positioning itself as a legal resource that doesn't use a legal process to protect its interests. DOS attacks are hardly a legal process, in the instance you point out the response that shut down the site was illegal and an inappropriate use of force. Recall that the reporter's management approved the piece and, to my eye, Linux and Open Source actually took more damage from the response then the piece itself which probably wouldn't have been read my many otherwise. The response was inept, illegal, and inappropriate.
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There are always shortcuts that can be taken when you take the law into your own hands, reporters often portray people in an unfavorable light, when they cross the line, they, and their publication, can be liable. I would probably agree with you that the protections aren’t as strong for the individual as I would like, but, in my book, two wrongs do not make a right and a site professing expertise in the law should not drive illegal behavior.
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In any case, to me there is a big difference between threatening to kidnap someone’s child because you disagree with them and a reporter trying to find out the background of a person who is clearly in the public domain by tracking down their mother. The first is clearly a crime, the second, right or wrong, is an almost nightly news occurrence.
