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Here in the Linux community, we're already pretty accustomed to strange behavior from hardware vendors when it comes to our favorite operating system. Sometimes, though, you just have to sit back and scratch your head. The latest example? None other than Dell. After the curious case of its disappearing "love letter" to Linux a few weeks ago, the Texas titan's UK site recently posted something that may be even more mystifying: a guide to helping customers choose between Windows and Ubuntu.
Dell courted the open source community a few of years ago but they are not committed to it. No one buys office software for Linux or support contracts or virus protection so there is no money in it other than the initial purchase. Unfortunately, I had to uninstall Ubuntu on a desktop last year because someone ordered a desktop and ended up with it and did not know what it was or how to use it. I hated to do it, but that is what the customer wanted and they paid for the Windows software ($250 retail from Dell!!) My son was using Ubuntu and Linspire when he was 3 and 4 years old.
The problem is Linux aint perfect
Posted by: MaxTesla 2010-07-26 17:21:41 In reply to: Katherine Noyes
Yes Ubuntu is nice sometimes but sometimes not
The nice is that there are less viruses (so far zero I think) and all that crap and less taxing on the system performance and it is free
But the problem is that not all hardware works 100% with Ubuntu without some major programming skills, like many older graphic cards especially laptop graphics don't work all that well Ubuntu can't really identify them
But the biggest problem is of course Games, games and games
the biggest problem is that the games don't work directly out of the box
You need wine band the you need to monkey around with wine a bit and sometimes it works but as one blogger in the article said, when Linux is in trouble it runs back to mommy
It SHOULD be that all you need to do is double click wine, and just put the cd/dvd into the machine and that Linux should be able to take everything from there and all you need to do is press next next ok ok
Also another problem is that far too many things are done in the command box, everything and I do mean everything should be able to be done by double clicking period
The nice is that there are less viruses (so far zero I think) and all that crap and less taxing on the system performance and it is free
But the problem is that not all hardware works 100% with Ubuntu without some major programming skills, like many older graphic cards especially laptop graphics don't work all that well Ubuntu can't really identify them
But the biggest problem is of course Games, games and games
the biggest problem is that the games don't work directly out of the box
You need wine band the you need to monkey around with wine a bit and sometimes it works but as one blogger in the article said, when Linux is in trouble it runs back to mommy
It SHOULD be that all you need to do is double click wine, and just put the cd/dvd into the machine and that Linux should be able to take everything from there and all you need to do is press next next ok ok
Also another problem is that far too many things are done in the command box, everything and I do mean everything should be able to be done by double clicking period
Why point fingers at MS and Dell?
Posted by: Mick999 2010-07-26 11:06:47 In reply to: Katherine Noyes
I have used Linux (Ubuntu) for over two years, I use CentOS on a VPS and configure it via SHH!
So, my knowledge of the operating system is probably right above your average joe user.
But, Linux is still my secondary OS on my machine, because quite frankly, all the major tools I use are Windows based and there is no definitive equivalent that I enjoy using on Linux, yes, we have Gimp, but its not as enjoyable or as productive as Photoshop, yeah, theres Blender for 3D artwork, but, compared to 3D Studio Max, its a hassle, and nothing can beat Visual Studio in the IDE front.
I could make do and just plunder through using whats available, but why should I have, when these tools are for one expensive and theres no way I'm going to throw them away, but most importantly, they make me more productive because I know how they work.
Which brings me on to my point... Yes, MS may have give dell a back hander, but for me, the reality is that its software developers that keep MS on top and Linux running behind... If they move their software over, even propriety software, then I'm sure more people will be obliged to dump MS and pick up a penguin!
Until then, I feel, Linux will always be doomed to be just a niche OS, which is a shame!
So, my knowledge of the operating system is probably right above your average joe user.
But, Linux is still my secondary OS on my machine, because quite frankly, all the major tools I use are Windows based and there is no definitive equivalent that I enjoy using on Linux, yes, we have Gimp, but its not as enjoyable or as productive as Photoshop, yeah, theres Blender for 3D artwork, but, compared to 3D Studio Max, its a hassle, and nothing can beat Visual Studio in the IDE front.
I could make do and just plunder through using whats available, but why should I have, when these tools are for one expensive and theres no way I'm going to throw them away, but most importantly, they make me more productive because I know how they work.
Which brings me on to my point... Yes, MS may have give dell a back hander, but for me, the reality is that its software developers that keep MS on top and Linux running behind... If they move their software over, even propriety software, then I'm sure more people will be obliged to dump MS and pick up a penguin!
Until then, I feel, Linux will always be doomed to be just a niche OS, which is a shame!
reply to Mick999-because illegal monopolies are real
Posted by: mykldean 2010-07-26 16:49:57 In reply to: Mick999
Mick999's subject is "why point fingers at M$ and Dell". Hey Mick999, that's what the original article is all about. It's about how huge illegal monopolies keep true innovation down.
Your argument that ubuntu has sub par software is an oversimplified smoke screen. Photoshop costs a lot of money and drives many people into piracy, the open source alternative works great for the vast majority of people and is free.
You can stay on M$'s leash forever if you're so inclined or otherwise that dumb but please don't try to convince others to do the same.
Your argument that ubuntu has sub par software is an oversimplified smoke screen. Photoshop costs a lot of money and drives many people into piracy, the open source alternative works great for the vast majority of people and is free.
You can stay on M$'s leash forever if you're so inclined or otherwise that dumb but please don't try to convince others to do the same.
mykldean don't be THAT guy, okay? The SECOND you starting using crap like "M$" you automatically come off as some kid in his basement thing his is leet because he can work a CLI, just like anyone calling Linux "Lunix". Unless that describes you, don't be THAT guy, okay?
And I'm sorry, but Linux DOES have both subpar software AND hardware support, and if you would simply think about a minute it makes perfect sense. Who pays the $$$ for Linux, hmmm? Who pays for most if not all the R&D? S.E.R.V.E.R companies, that's who. People using RHEL and Debian and other Linux servers, as well as the OEMs trying to sell servers to those users. And sadly they don't care about Linux on the desktop, and frankly neither does Canonical, and I can prove it.
Want proof? Look at the repos on the Dell Ubuntu offerings. Notice anything hinky? In case you don't know Dell disables the Canonical repos on ALL their Ubuntu offerings, why? Because Canonical has such p*ss poor QA that they can't even be bother to run testing with their OEMs hardware before releasing a new rev, that's why! You update one of those Dells using the Canonical repos? Broken sound and wireless. I'm sorry, but that is just sad.
But it doesn't really matter anyway, because as we see with Ubuntu Cloud offerings and Ubuntu server Canonical is figuring out what most already have: There simply isn't any money to be made from Linux on the desktop, and the amount of $$$$$ required for the R&D to bring it up to the level of OSX and WIndows 7 simply isn't there.
You can kid yourself that it is ready, but its not. It still has WAAAAY too much CLI, too little stability, especially when it comes to "update foo broke my driver" issues, and too much reliance on forums and fixes instead of it "just works" like OSX and Windows. When was the last time you used CLI mykldean? If the answer is "at all" then its fail, as a retailer I can tell you Joe Average is afraid of Windows Control Panel, he sure as heck ain't messing with a CLI. And just look up the devices for sale at Walmart or staples and then look up how many have Linux support, you'll find MAYBE 30%, and that is if you count those that require CLI, which as I said is fail.
So I'm sorry, but until the Linux community admits the problems and spends real time and money to fix them then you will see companies like Dell putting warnings, simply to lower the huge amount of returns they would get otherwise. Sorry mykldean, that's just the facts and why as a retailer I won't sell Linux PCs.
And I'm sorry, but Linux DOES have both subpar software AND hardware support, and if you would simply think about a minute it makes perfect sense. Who pays the $$$ for Linux, hmmm? Who pays for most if not all the R&D? S.E.R.V.E.R companies, that's who. People using RHEL and Debian and other Linux servers, as well as the OEMs trying to sell servers to those users. And sadly they don't care about Linux on the desktop, and frankly neither does Canonical, and I can prove it.
Want proof? Look at the repos on the Dell Ubuntu offerings. Notice anything hinky? In case you don't know Dell disables the Canonical repos on ALL their Ubuntu offerings, why? Because Canonical has such p*ss poor QA that they can't even be bother to run testing with their OEMs hardware before releasing a new rev, that's why! You update one of those Dells using the Canonical repos? Broken sound and wireless. I'm sorry, but that is just sad.
But it doesn't really matter anyway, because as we see with Ubuntu Cloud offerings and Ubuntu server Canonical is figuring out what most already have: There simply isn't any money to be made from Linux on the desktop, and the amount of $$$$$ required for the R&D to bring it up to the level of OSX and WIndows 7 simply isn't there.
You can kid yourself that it is ready, but its not. It still has WAAAAY too much CLI, too little stability, especially when it comes to "update foo broke my driver" issues, and too much reliance on forums and fixes instead of it "just works" like OSX and Windows. When was the last time you used CLI mykldean? If the answer is "at all" then its fail, as a retailer I can tell you Joe Average is afraid of Windows Control Panel, he sure as heck ain't messing with a CLI. And just look up the devices for sale at Walmart or staples and then look up how many have Linux support, you'll find MAYBE 30%, and that is if you count those that require CLI, which as I said is fail.
So I'm sorry, but until the Linux community admits the problems and spends real time and money to fix them then you will see companies like Dell putting warnings, simply to lower the huge amount of returns they would get otherwise. Sorry mykldean, that's just the facts and why as a retailer I won't sell Linux PCs.
Hey great: spend a bunch of time coming up with convoluted logic and barf it up right there. I won't waste my time wading through your pile of junk logic... just another corporate boob I'd guess but I really don't care.
I doubt that I'm trying to convince others to stay with MS, if you look at my post, I'm stating the reason why I, as in ME, use Windows over Ubuntu.
If major brands did jump from MS I would gladly follow, I also know quite a few people that would shift across too, mostly game programmers which is what I do (Indie game dev).
My argument about Ubuntu being sub par with software is based on experience, based on tools I know and tools I've tried... Why should I use Gimp when I'm perfectly capable in Photoshop, and Blender's interface is just terrible... The only thing going for it is animation, but I'm sorry, that's not enough for me to dump a fortunes worths of software down the pan.
And this doesnt stop at me... Like I mentioned, there are people who would move, heck, some would move to Mac fulltime if the same tools were available, but their not, so for the foreseeable future, I'll still be booting into Windows for work, which means I'll still be apparently dumb but at least I'll also be productive, which is what puts bread on the table!
If major brands did jump from MS I would gladly follow, I also know quite a few people that would shift across too, mostly game programmers which is what I do (Indie game dev).
My argument about Ubuntu being sub par with software is based on experience, based on tools I know and tools I've tried... Why should I use Gimp when I'm perfectly capable in Photoshop, and Blender's interface is just terrible... The only thing going for it is animation, but I'm sorry, that's not enough for me to dump a fortunes worths of software down the pan.
And this doesnt stop at me... Like I mentioned, there are people who would move, heck, some would move to Mac fulltime if the same tools were available, but their not, so for the foreseeable future, I'll still be booting into Windows for work, which means I'll still be apparently dumb but at least I'll also be productive, which is what puts bread on the table!
