E-Commerce Times Talkback

Re: The X10 Question: Traffic Without Dollars?
Posted by: ECT News 2001-06-14 13:42:23

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Since starting a massive pop-up and
pop-under advertising campaign early this year that
brings Web traffic to its site automatically, e-tailer
X10.com has gone from a relatively unknown seller of home
networking and security devices to a leader in the quest for Internet clicks.

However, analysts have their doubts about whether all the traffic to
X10 is translating into sales for the privately held company. Media Metrix
analyst Max Kalehoff told
the E-Commerce Times that the impressiveness of the company's traffic levels
is tempered by the fact that even users who immediately close
the new browser window featuring the X10 ad without reading it are counted as visitors.

Re: The X10 Question: Traffic Without Dollars?
Posted by: jbharding 2003-11-07 23:52:45 In reply to: ECT News

X10 loses $4.3 million lawsuit
for stealing technology, for failure to pay, and for bullying
YORBA LINDA, California, CNN, Oct 21, 2003 -- On October 7, three brothers, owners of Advertisement Banners.com,were awarded $4.3 million -- after accusing X10 Wireless Technology of trying to bully them out of business, and stealing their technology.
The three brothers stand to win much more in punitive damages, which are set for hearing on November 18 .
"These were young guys who had a dream to start a successful company, but X10 looked at their youth and thought they could wipe them out," said Michael Fitzgerald, a lawyer for the brothers.
X10's Chairman, a Singapore resident,
is the bully in Escape from Paradise.
In fact, most of Escape from Paradise is about Chung & X10
The owner of X10 is none other than Chung Hin Chew, JR Ewing wannabe, and the bully in our book, Escape from Paradise. What Mr. Chung attempted to do to the three brothers is consistent with his behavior in Escape from Paradise. It is a validation of our book.
X10 declares bankruptcy!
The lawsuit against X10 was, however, only the tip of the iceberg. Immediately after losing the $4.3 million lawsuit, X10 filed for bankruptcy under Chapter 11 of the Bankruptcy Code in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Seattle.
The filing reveals some financial details of a company that had made itself known throughout the Web for its ubiquitous pop-under campaign and yet remained secretive about its operations.
X10 owes its creditors between $10 and $50 million. Other creditors include some of the Internet's best-known names, including Yahoo!, $346,000; Google Inc., $68,000; America Online Inc., $55,000; eBay Inc., $49,000; and Microsoft, about $459,000. X10 even owes $667,412 to its own lawyers, Sheppard Mullin Richter & Hampton of Los Angeles.
But where are X10's financial records?
In Hong Kong? In Bermuda?
X10 filed what the bankruptcy court termed a "deficient" filing, meaning that it lacked a statement of its financial affairs. The court set a 15-day deadline for the completion of the filing, or X10 risks a dismissal.
Will X10's creditors ever see their money?
Chungco Bermuda, Ltd...
In Escape from Paradise, we explained CLEARLY what X10 was doing. X10 was generating losses in the US, and shifting over their profits to the parent company in Hong Kong. The profits most likely wind in the tax-free haven of Bermuda, at Chungco Bermuda Ltd, the holding company of X10 in Hong Kong. X10's creditors have a long way to go to catch up with the elusive Hin Chew Chung.

Re: The X10 Question: Traffic Without Dollars?
Posted by: a aab 2001-09-05 17:35:30 In reply to: ECT News

x-10 promotional endeavors are "on the money"

Our site's hits "http://5url.com/" has gone up 300% in the month that we have been using the same promotional technique, and the length of time viewers have stayed on the page is impressive.

Hits are nothing if they are not motivated to explore the site.

The University of Pheonix has stated a similar campaign

Re: The X10 Question: Traffic Without Dollars?
Posted by: Molly Brown 2001-09-17 17:56:32 In reply to: a aab

Todd Ulise, (from trafficmarketplace.com) (used to be x10's biggest marketer)

I think x10 totally overpromotes themself and that their ad has been viewed so many times that anyone who wants to buy the camera already has.

My advice, let people who want to buy the camera buy it, no need to waste your time getting visitors upset over your overrun ad.

Re: The X10 Question: Traffic Without Dollars?
Posted by: Phil 2001-08-30 20:08:26 In reply to: ECT News

I agree with the earlier poster that it is useless to talk about hits to web sites. If we have learnt anything at all during the last year while the NASDAQ drops 50% it's that hits are a meaningless statistic. We need to get back to the old fashioned business figures: REVENUES - EXPENSES = PROFIT. If x10 corp. can show that they are making a ton of money selling their little gizmos then I will be impressed. If they are not making any money then I don't care at all how many hits they had. One can list plenty of now bankrupt firms that had lots of hits!

Furthermore I looked around their site and it looks really cheesy. It's very difficult to tell what exactly the products do and the uses they suggest seem stupid. Really, can you imagine video taping your sand box 24 hours a day so that you can produce a video of a cat pooing to present to it's owner??? If you do this you must have a great deal of spare time on your hands to watch hours and hours of video tape. This would only make you look like a geek and alienate your neighbour. Besides what would the cat owner do about future problems - follow the cat around with a pooper-scooper?

Another crazy use they suggest is using a camera to monitor your refrigerator so that you can complain to any fat people in your family who are snacking! Can you imagine a more hopeless method of dealing with weight problems?! Perhaps the money to be spent on spy equipment would be better spent on carrot sticks and other low cal food items!!

Re: The X10 Question: Traffic Without Dollars?
Posted by: greypanda 2002-05-19 12:57:20 In reply to: Phil

I have been a user of x10 products for many years and I am rather dismayed at the pop-ups since they are not only annoying but (I think) in rather bad taste.
That said, I think the cameras are one of the most useful tools for certain applications. Although I would never point a camera at an unsuspecting visitor, I have several cameras in my home to monitor activity, and there is a large sign at the entrance to the property warning visitors of that fact. If you have kids or elders that need constant attention, these little wonders can provide invaluable service at a modest price. Just go price the alternative sources for video surveillance!

Re: The X10 Question: Traffic Without Dollars?
Posted by: Todd Ulise 2001-07-27 16:55:10 In reply to: ECT News

I really think that people should stop focusing on traffic, and realize that x10 is a business that wants to make money. The people who right the articles do not create news, the report them, and this "traffic without dollars" is one person's (who really should do their research) interpretation.

Re: The X10 Question: Traffic Without Dollars?
Posted by: Goober 2001-07-16 23:41:13 In reply to: ECT News

Last time I got the x-10 pop-up, I spent a little long distance money and called the company and flamed-out the secretary that answered the phone. I told her she shouldn't work for some jerk who would make her take all the angry phone calls from people who are constantly wasting their time deleting the useless x-10 commercials from their home computer screens. She was crying by the time I hung up! (The X-10 people are probably reading this and saying... wow... it must work, he remembered the name of our company... hey, there's no such thing as bad PR!)

Re: The X10 Question: Traffic Without Dollars?
Posted by: Martin731 2001-07-17 15:02:04 In reply to: Goober

Hmm. I hate eggplant, but when I walked into the supermarket the other day, a clerk handed me a coupon advertising an eggplant sale. I had to throw it in a nearby trash can. What a waste of time!

If I followed your example, Goober, I'd have screamed at the person handing out the coupons until he cried.

I would have told him he should not work for a chain that engages in such obnoxious marketing practices. What's that about needing to pay the rent? Excuses, excuses. He deserves to cry. The whole scheme is obviously his idea.

Yeah. Right.

Re: The X10 Question: Traffic Without Dollars?
Posted by: spitfire 2001-11-06 17:31:11 In reply to: Martin731

I'm not sure why nobody has mentioned the fact that what this x10 popup ad is promoting is illegal (or about to be illegal because the use of spy video recorders is a new issue for the legal system. Audio taping someone without their knowledge is illegal now and spying on people in person is illegal now.)

I also called the company and tried to speak to the woman in charge of advertising but for some reason :) she didn't want to speak with me. So I also ended up speaking with a very sweet sounding, church lady type secretary who was stating that their company would never! promote anything illegal.

The fact that they are promoting these things is far more aggravating to me than the fact that the advertising technique is cheap.

Re: The X10 Question: Traffic Without Dollars?
Posted by: goober 2001-07-18 21:09:13 In reply to: Martin731

Uh... did the clerk barge uninvited into your living room to hand you the coupon? Didn't think so.
Perhaps with my system, X10 management will get a hint. Because there is no other way to address the annoyance they force upon me... and you!
BTW... I actually did call the company... I was stern but not rude... she wasn't really crying... (really!) I was using dramatic license there... just like they do on TV. I really love cats and dogs and I'm not a complete person without the wife kids around. (honest.)

Re: The X10 Question: Traffic Without Dollars?
Posted by: Clem 2001-07-17 14:46:38 In reply to: Goober

As bad as those X10 ads are, they are not nearly as bad as making an innocent operator cry. What's worse is that you seem proud of your achievement.

Re: The X10 Question: Traffic Without Dollars?
Posted by: Erik Fenerik 2001-06-14 20:07:45 In reply to: ECT News

These X-10 yaboos are fooling people into thinking that because they pop up their window in my browser I'm a visitor to their site?

I close those stupid pop-ups instantly. If they want to count me as a hit then they're lying to themselves and their investors.

MESSAGE TO ALL MARKETERS:
Pop-ups are a bad and stupid way to attempt to do business. If you are selling a legitimate piece of hardware (and no I'm not referring to herbal viagra) then market it the right way. Not by forcing me to close your stupid windows.

MESSAGE TO BROWSER COMPANIES:
How about an means to turn off these rude bastards when they try to force pop ups into my windows? Opera? Please? It'd make my life that much easier. Or maybe a pop-up filter to weed out the really irritating ones?

Re: The X10 Question: Traffic Without Dollars?
Posted by: Theron Keller 2001-06-14 16:56:43 In reply to: ECT News

What a farce. I noticed these obnoxious pop-up ads from X10 a few weeks ago. Not only
do I immediately close that new browser window, I would absolutely refuse to purchase
anything from a company that employs such sleazy tactics. How is this different
than SPAM? I am using MY computer resources, and bandwidth that I am paying for, to view
an unsolicited commercial advertisement for an UNWANTED product. This is the stuff that
causes the dot coms to fail. Hot air and press, but no dollars.

Re: The X10 Question: Traffic Without Dollars?
Posted by: Flugennock 2001-06-17 14:18:41 In reply to: Theron Keller

Hey, gang; it's really easy to get rid of those little boogers:

1. If you have any form of Java or JavaScript
running, TURN IT OFF NOW.

2. If you have cookies enabled in _any_ fashion,
TURN THEM OFF NOW.

3. Learn how to use a "hosts" file to firewall
traffic from commonly-used major ad servers
such as akamai or TroubleClick... uh,
DoubleClick.

4. In the "Preferences" section of your browser,
there should be a box where you list things
like your server name, email address and
such. Make your email address bogus.

While I won't argue that the X10 ad campaign is some of the most obnoxious crap ever, there are some very easy and simple things that regular old Joe and Jane User can do to rid their lives of that vile crap, and better protect their privacy at that.

Re: The X10 Question: Traffic Without Dollars?
Posted by: Doubting Tomas 2001-06-14 15:00:13 In reply to: ECT News

I log onto myfamily.com multiple times per day and that pop up window pops up numerous times as I navigate the site. I close the window each time and continue on my way, but I guess that means I get counted as a new visitor each time...sounds like there's no need to believe the hype (numbers).

Re: The X10 Question: Traffic Without Dollars?
Posted by: subterfuge 2001-07-12 22:12:44 In reply to: Doubting Tomas

from a business perspective the cynics amongst us would question the business ethics behind x-com's strategy. pre IPO, and attempting to fraudulently inflate the site visitor statistics.....mmmmmm!!?

no doubt these statistics will apperar in bold in the prospectus. would you really buy stock in this company???

* these comments are of personal opinion only and are not designed or expected to be used to form a judgement on the validity of the company*

Re: The X10 Question: Traffic Without Dollars?
Posted by: Will Ford 2001-07-18 07:59:38 In reply to: subterfuge

I agree with 'subterfuge' - at the end of the day, if X-10.com's adverts are not very good, at the product is equally bad, *and* they have employed improper business techniques, then it's unlikely people are going to want to buy their stock.
I think, however, that the question of companies now being able to do this is more prevalent. Apart from a few of us who complain about this form of advertising, as someone said earlier, in fact it is no different from spam! I don't think it'll be too long before web sites are made aware of this and stop selling pop-up ads. It's only due to the slow advertising market that they're allowing it to go on, anyway.
So in fact, perhaps we can't have a free Internet without putting up with ridiculous pop-up ads. How prepared are we to have subscription only content rather than suffer commercials?
As for inflated figures: who cares about the charts?! Hits is one thing, sales is another!